Emily Williams: 01:00

Hi, everyone. We're glad to have you back. Thanks for joining us. On our last episode, we spent some time with activist and author Feminista Jones, and she helped us dig into the arguments for and against voting in the 2024 presidential election. She also talked about how many of us place too heavy of an emphasis on presidential politics as the main driver of social change, oftentimes to the exclusion of other powerful political avenues like organizing and getting active in local elections.

Emily Williams: 01:34

And I think she makes an excellent point. But when you think about it, it makes sense that that's how people think about political engagement. Americans have long been taught to view voting as their primary way of influencing politics. It's how we have our say in this country, and it's fundamental to our idea of a representative democracy. One person, one vote.

Emily Williams: 01:58

But what happens when you start to feel like your vote is being taken for granted? When you've gone through all the appropriate and, quote, unquote, respectable avenues to hold folks accountable and try to pressure and influence your party's candidate on the things that matter to you most, but you still feel shut out of the process? Do you stay in the process? I'm Emily Williams, executive director of the Arcus Center For Social Justice Leadership at Kalamazoo College. Welcome to Beyond Voting.

Emily Williams: 02:39

We started this show for people like you and me. People who care about making a difference in the world. People who want to share in redesigning the democracy we deserve outside of the typical political binary. This episode, I want to consider what working within the confines of electoral politics can do for us and what its limitations are through the lens of the uncommitted movement. The uncommitted movement is a grassroots movement of over 700,000 Democratic voters and political leaders, many in critical swing states who refuse to commit to voting for the Democratic nominee in the presidential primaries until their demands for a ceasefire in Gaza and an arms embargo were taken seriously.

Emily Williams: 03:27

Now that the Democratic National Convention is over and a democratic nominee has been officially selected, I wanted to talk to someone who can help me understand where the uncommitted movement goes from here. What's been the response from Democratic party leadership to being pushed to change their policy in Israel and Gaza by members of its own party? And can working within the system truly pave a way for their demands to become real policy? Today's guest had some incredibly insightful answers. Esam Boraey has been on the front lines for freedom and democracy in the Middle East.

Emily Williams: 04:02

He's an Egyptian American political activist and academic who, to hear him tell it, was inspired by the American values of freedom and democracy for all. That inspiration led him to take an active role in the 2011 Arab Spring protest demanding democratic representation, human rights, and the divestment of American funds from Egypt's military. In 2013, Assam fled to America after he was convicted and sentenced to prison as a dissident in his native Egypt. Since immigrating to the United States, Esam has been working tirelessly for human rights. In the aftermath of the tragic events of October 7, 2023 and the Israeli government's military campaign in Gaza, Essem joined the uncommitted movement fueled by his desire to push the Biden administration to change his policy and stop funding the atrocities being committed against Palestinians in Gaza.

Emily Williams: 04:59

And earlier this year, he was chosen to be one of 2 Democratic National Convention delegates from Connecticut. Essam has a unique perspective on the role that foreign policy plays in our elections and the perception of the United States across the globe. That perspective informs his desire to ask more of our elected officials when their policies don't reflect the values they claim to uphold. When I talked to Esam, it was only a few days after the Democratic National Convention wrapped its weeklong festivities in Chicago. I wanted to hear about his experience with the uncommitted movement, his history as an activist, how the uncommitted delegates were received by the party's leadership at the DNC, and his thoughts on continuing to push his fellow democrats on Gaza, foreign policy, and more.

Emily Williams: 05:47

Esam, thank you so much for joining us.

Esam Boreay: 05:50

Thanks for having me.

Emily Williams: 05:52

So, Esam, tell us, what is the uncommitted movement? How did you get involved, and what's the process of being a part of it?

Esam Boreay: 06:00

The uncommitted effort started actually way back, during the primary process in early March when many members of the Democratic Party decided to vote uncommitted during the primary process. And the reason for that was we will not show support to Joe Biden at the time until he shifts his policy towards the, the Palestinian Israeli conflict. And that was significant effort to tell Democrats that we are members of your party. We disagree with your policies. So this is the time to have a discussion, and this is the time to have this conversation.

Esam Boreay: 06:47

The process of being part of the uncommitted movement is very simple. Just vote present during the delegation campaigns. We are a group of democratic delegates who were elected in some way or the other to be part of the DNC delegation to choose the president. And we decided to use that leverage and that, momentum to be able to raise some questions and concerns regarding American foreign policy, especially when it comes to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. We strongly disagree with how one-sided the American administration has been in that conflict, and we also strongly disturbed by funding, all of the horrors that's been happening since October 7 in Gaza and the suffering that's been happening again is the Palestinian population.

Esam Boreay: 07:45

Basically, since the day we were, we knew, that we will be part of the DNC delegation, we decided to use that leverage to be able to raise those questions and push our administration as much as we can towards more equitable and more just approach to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The first step was to follow the process and the procedures that the party itself implemented for us as delegates to be able to add part to the platform, suggest edits or even suggest the new items to the party platform. And after that voting or not voting for, vice president Kamala Harris to be the nominee for the party. Right.

Emily Williams: 08:37

And it was so smart and so strategic because it was a way to actually create accountability with the vote, particularly during the primaries. It was an opportunity to say, listen. You can't take our vote for granted.

Esam Boreay: 08:50

Yes. That's just perfectly right. And, also, like, we wanted closer to show that many people in the strategic must win states are supporting a change of policy. But, also, you can guess how many others who didn't participate in the primaries or didn't vote uncommitted. How many of us how many more are in favor of a change in policy?

Esam Boreay: 09:15

And this is what the polls keep showing, every day.

Emily Williams: 09:19

Right. Absolutely. And I think early on, and particularly in Michigan, the uncommitted vote got much more support than even expected. And I think I remember it was something like in Michigan, the goal was like 10,000 uncommitted votes and there ended up being a 100,000, something along those lines where there was many more people who voted uncommitted than the movement itself even expected, which is telling about where Americans really are with this policy towards Gaza.

Esam Boreay: 09:45

Sure.

Emily Williams: 09:46

So, Esam, tell me this. Why is the Israel Gaza conflict different? Like, why is this such a divisive issue for Americans? And how does the response in America differ from the response in so many other places in the world?

Esam Boreay: 10:02

Actually, I do I disagree with you. It's not different at all. If we're speaking in terms of how the American administration responds to the conflict, if we're talking about, how the conflict is run and how it's seen, if we're talking about the factors and the elements of which impact how we, as Americans, respond to this whole situation, it's not actually different.

Emily Williams: 10:27

Well, let me clarify because I think what's so different about this conflict with Israel and Gaza is that the majority of Americans support a ceasefire, yet the problem persists. America's involvement remains the same, and there is such hesitance to actually speak out against Israel. And so in this sense, why is it so divisive? And then I guess the question is, is the nature of the conflict and how people are responding, is it different here in the US than other places in the world?

Esam Boreay: 11:01

I would say it's not different. It's a very expected pattern from from the American administration to have this gap between what the American administration does and what the American people asking them to do. And the reason for this two reasons. The the number 1, it's money and politics. We have a large amount of money that goes into political campaigns to guarantee that the winning candidate will adapt or follow certain policies or punish sitting candidates, sitting members of congress and push them to lose their seats.

Esam Boreay: 11:39

So the money in politics, it's a huge problem and make all of us as hostages to those wealthy donors who can navigate our political system and political response. The second reason, and it's not less important than the first reason, the deep rooted racism in our policymakers in Washington DC. Now those bureaucrats, those people who analyze the situation and elevate recommendations that they have to the president or the state department. Those people have a significant level of deep rooted racism, and the racism reflects pretty much on how they look at the Arabs, Middle Eastern Muslims as savages, terrorists, less worthy. Their life don't don't matter as much.

Esam Boreay: 12:37

And those class of of employees who who grow up, with Bush administrations and 911 and all of those all of those significant events, and nonsignificant events have this conventional wisdom about Arabs in Middle Eastern are not suited for for democracy, are not suited for freedom. Their lives are less worthy than the others. And Israel is the only democratic state in the Middle East that they look like us. They speak like us. When you walk in Tel Aviv, it looks like New York or Chicago.

Esam Boreay: 13:13

So we will side with those people because they are more worthy, because they look like us and speak like us and adapt to the same culture. So those two reasons, the money aspect and the racism that's rooted in our career policy makers in DC, bring us to the same pattern of conflict where we think picking up one side and supporting them with as much money and as much weapons as possible will end the conflict and will protect and save our interest in the region, which is completely wrong.

Emily Williams: 13:52

Thank you for spelling that out so clearly and in such detail because I think that that's something that people can see or maybe pick up on, but to have it spelled out is really helpful. And do you think that that type of racism is unique to the US, or does it also affect the response around the globe?

Esam Boreay: 14:14

We we see, a rise of right wing populism and nationalism and fascism all over the globe, especially in, North America and and East Europe. However, though, it takes a stronger meaning here in the US because of the greater impact of the American politics on the globe. This is why it's very unique to the US. During the civil rights movements here here in the US, even after changing the laws, racism remained for decades decades decades after that because the the class of bureaucrats who were running and implementing those, rules were as racists as it was the day before implementing those laws. And those people were very creative in finding ways to walk around those those laws.

Esam Boreay: 15:10

And so the impact and the strength of the of the US and, and the American foreign policy around the globe and how we use as Americans our military power and money to support dictators and authoritarian regimes across the globe, that increases the impact of this racism and makes makes the the American racism more hurtful than any other part of the world.

Emily Williams: 15:41

Yeah. And what I'm thinking of when you're speaking, when I'm listening to you is that the combination of white supremacy and imperialism is much more harmful than what other countries are able to do because they don't invest as much in their imperial projects, and perhaps white supremacy is not as ingrained in their institutions or within society the way that it is in the US. Right? And I think, you know, we so often think about white supremacy as it relates to Black folks in this country and how they've been treated. But I like that you're also highlighting how this white supremacy is also coming out in the foreign policy and particularly as it relates to what's happening in Gaza.

Emily Williams: 16:24

Okay. So for people who feel like this is coming out of nowhere, that actually the conflict between Israel and Gaza just happened last year on October 7th and that it has absolutely nothing to do with them, how does what is happening in Palestine, how does that actually affect Americans?

Esam Boreay: 16:46

I grew up in a region believing that American and and American foreign policy is the guarantor of our freedoms. And without the pressure that the American administration will put on our dictators and authoritarian regimes in in the Middle East from Mubarak in Egypt to Saddam Hussein in Iraq, for example, the suffering of those people will of us as people will increase significantly. And we believed in that strongly. If I would say the same thing today, my nephew who is 21 years old and he he's in he's a Taj will will laugh at my face. Right?

Esam Boreay: 17:26

That hurts our credibility, and that will reflect an an increasing disliking and hatred toward the American politics and the American regimes and even the American people across the globe. We are in a crucial moment where American credibility on the globalist stage is under huge threats of undermining to the level that at some places, at some points, it's laughable to talk about American credibility. And if we don't act immediately to restore this credibility on a global stage, we will be doomed forever. And the only way to do that, the only way to restore our credibility is by standing truth to our values and put our values of freedom, human rights, democracy, equality, justice ahead of our individual interests of winning a seat or increasing the the funding to to my campaign. We think our interest will be strong or will strengthen by maintaining a status quo, but we do not we do not realize the status quo is changing since 2011 and after that.

Esam Boreay: 18:47

And the young people who are now running things are changing and they have different measures of measuring everything. And those class bureaucrats who create our foreign policy need to move way away from it and start understanding what is the new status quo and how can we work with it. Otherwise, we we're losing on every front. We're losing financially. We're losing politically.

Esam Boreay: 19:16

And more importantly, in my opinion, we're losing morally, and we can't afford that.

Emily Williams: 19:22

Yeah. Absolutely. And so now and I wanna ask you to clarify because you said something that Kamala Harris said in her closing speech at the DNC, and I think you 2 mean 2 different things. Right? She also said that we have to show the world our values, and we have to show the world who we are and stick to our values.

Emily Williams: 19:42

But I think you 2 are talking about 2 different things. Right? So, 1, what are those values that we actually need to stick to as Americans to regain credibility in the global community? 2, what do you think has changed about the global community that now has changed its perception of the US? What are the things that are actually damaging our credibility with the global community?

Emily Williams: 20:08

But then also thinking domestically, are we ruining our credibility by adopting things like COP City in Atlanta or trainees with the IDF, with the Israel Defense Forces? How about censorship on social media, Punishing college protesters? I mean, are those things that are happening domestically, are those also ruining our credibility abroad? Yes.

Esam Boreay: 20:32

To your first question about the values, it was so heartbreaking to sit right in front of vice president Kamala Harris' thoughts about sticking to our values. And in the same breath, we will talk about having the strongest military, the most powerful military Lethal. The word was lethal. She used

Emily Williams: 20:54

the word lethal, which is, like, more extreme in my opinion than saying powerful or strong. Saying lethal is more extreme Yes. Than than those other words.

Esam Boreay: 21:03

Yes. That was that was very sad because, again, will will take me back to the racist assumption in our, class bureaucrats in DC thinks that the only way is to kill as many people as possible to be able to secure our interest or maintain our our resources and and our our strong hand across the globe. And this imperialistic approach to foreign policy is not only dangerous, but also so wrong and so against our values. So when I follow news articles and how the media outside of the US, especially in the Middle East and beyond, how they cover what's happening, one of the most repeated sentence in those news coverage in many languages, not only Arabic or in Egypt, in many languages and many countries, it's something along the lines of American universities implementing new rules and new laws to oppress students' freedom of speech on campus, and these are the democratic values that Americans keep talking about all day.

Emily Williams: 22:19

Right. And then also hold themselves as, like, an authority in the rest of the world to uphold democracy or to promote democracy.

Esam Boreay: 22:26

Exactly.

Emily Williams: 22:26

Which is obviously comes off as very hypocritical.

Esam Boreay: 22:30

I was born in this region, and I grew up with these assumptions. Right? The way we see Americans is this. Your value you always talk about your values of freedom, equality despite your race, gender, ethnicity, and sexual orientation. Right?

Esam Boreay: 22:46

This is what how we understood it. But when we see your actions on that way, it strongly shakes your image in our brain. So now, if you the young generations who paid the blood and freedoms to be able to push their governments more and more towards an American style democratic process. How can we do this anymore? How can we adopt that narrative anymore?

Esam Boreay: 23:18

And how can I oppose my government leaning toward Russia or Iran or China, for example? Right? How can I blame my government for doing this since the American values that were implemented in my brain are being destroyed and damaged by the actions of the American people and the American government and American officials, and American decision makers? And the negative impact of that changing in in minds and image, it doesn't hurt us as Americans, not only financially and economically and military, also morally. If we if we're not awake, if we're not aware of that point, I think we will we will wake up sooner or later in a very different global order that we will not like.

Emily Williams: 24:14

And thank you for laying that out so clearly for us, that insight about how the perception of the US and our credibility in the global community is shifting and why because too few Americans think about what the rest of the world thinks of us. Right? You know, our foreign policy is so prevalent throughout the world, has really shaped the rest of the world but if many places throughout the world are beginning to reject our influence and our role and think of us critically, you're right. I think a lot of people would think so, especially when it comes to the more imperialistic foreign policy of the US. You know, when we think about Kamala Harris' comments in her closing speech at the DNC and when she talked about having the most lethal military in the world and what you're sharing with us is that that actually is diminishing our credibility in the rest of the world.

Emily Williams: 25:04

The rest of the world doesn't wanna see that. So then it makes me question, well, who are those comments for? Who is she appeasing with those kinds of comments? That's important for us to think about, right, in terms of who's influencing our candidates and who's influencing this, quote, unquote, democratic process.

Esam Boreay: 25:22

Sure. I, of course, I don't have any, like, documented answers, but I I could tell you how that's perceived in the wider universe beyond the US, like, everywhere on Earth immediately responded. This is, the, military industrial complex lobby line in that, speech. This is how that line is is perceived. The next line will be, every time the American economy is going through a slow turn or slow growth, American government will always start the war to be able to sell weapons if then their economy will will increase.

Esam Boreay: 26:01

This is how people think of the Americans, and I can't say there is no smoke without fire. Right? Like, I'm sure there are evidence out there will support that narrative, and I will just leave it at money and politics is very dangerous thing.

Emily Williams: 26:19

So circling back to the uncommitted movement, how have you all tried to get the Democratic Party to shift its policy on Israel and Gaza? What happened at the DNC, and what was the party's response?

Esam Boreay: 26:31

The party response is very disappointing. Almost zero response so far. So we started the uncommitted movement by uncommitted vote before the primaries, and we we decided to do this to show how many registered Democrats. This is not counting independent, not counting anyone else, just how many registered Democrats who voted in the primary will be in favor of a change in policy. And the uncommitted movement came out very strong with higher number than expected and encouraged more and more people to join that sentiment.

Esam Boreay: 27:07

And then once, once we've learned that we elected to be delegates and we formed the final list of who's going to be, to be a delegate, immediately in the party meetings and the DNC meetings and the platform meeting, the policy making meetings, we start knowing each other and networking within the delegates who are supported the uncommitted vote. And it was one of the most beautiful groups I've ever I've ever seen and I worked with in my entire life. They are dedicated. They are very diverse. Our backgrounds are absolutely true representation of the Democratic party as we like to play.

Esam Boreay: 27:50

Right? And then we we took multiple actions against starting and beginning with following the platforms that the process that the party implemented for us. And our thought was, what happens on October 7 was insanely painful, and we cannot justify that. But also what's been happening again is the Palestinian people since October 8 is too much suffering for innocent people, for innocent civilians, for children, for women, for Palestinians in general. And that suffering is not only happening since October 8.

Esam Boreay: 28:30

It's been happening in Gaza and the West Bank for many, many decades. Gaza has been under siege. Gaza has been described as an open air prison for 2,200,000 people. There are 2 again, I'm sorry. I have to repeat that number.

Esam Boreay: 28:47

2,200,000 people live in an open air prison for 18 years. 18 years. And there's an occupying force that controls how many calories per day each person will eat, how much electricity will go to each hospital, who's allowed to to leave. I can't tell you how many cancer patients died inside Gaza because they couldn't get a security permission to go to the hospital. Those cancer patient, kids and elderly, all ages, all backgrounds.

Esam Boreay: 29:25

So we wanted to highlight that suffering and highlight that that's actually we are paying for that. We are paying for killing and genociding things of thousands of kids and women and and Palestinians on daily basis and we are paying for putting this them inside an open air prison for decades. We did everything we could prior to the the convention in Chicago. And, also, we requested meetings, we requested speakers, We requested everything we could. We got nothing in return.

Esam Boreay: 30:05

The language we wrote to be included in the platform was absolutely dismissed. None of it appeared in the final platform. Our goal was to sell primary and the convention is the best time for Democrats to sit together, have this hard discussion, come up with more just and equitable policy that will guarantee safety and security for everybody, hostage release, immediate ceasefire. I have a more just solution for that conflict. Reserve Palestinians' rights and dignity.

Esam Boreay: 30:41

This is the time. And Democrats are the people who should be leading this discussion, not anyone else. We love to claim our tent is big. We enjoy claiming that we are we we support diversity and we stand for the real true American values of human rights and democracy and and justice and equality for everybody. So we are the one who have the responsibility and the duty to carry that legacy to the finish line.

Esam Boreay: 31:12

And the best time and the best place to do this is during the convention. And the best people to carry this are the delegates who are elected by their fellow community members and party members to represent to them in that great event. We did that and we got zero response. So we decided, how can we bring that topic to the discussion? We got a taste of how the party is completely ignoring this whole topic and how the party is intentionally decided not to include any of that topic on the platform.

Esam Boreay: 31:52

But they invited some of the hostages family members to come speak. We absolutely supported that because we feel for these families. We hope, we pray every day for the safety return of the hostages, and we would love to hear these stories as a reminder for all of us where the war and where the violence takes us. So we were very supportive of this, but also at the same time, there is another victim in that equation that should also be presented. And we were very saddened and disappointed to know that the other side will not be represented and the party is completely one-sided on that issue.

Esam Boreay: 32:36

The day I arrived before the convention, there was an an event in Chicago sponsored by the Palestinian American community in in Chicago, and we were invited and they gave us some some merch, and there's some some t shirts and some flags and some stuff like this. And the event took so long and, like, Middle Eastern loves loves to talk. So the event took too long and I didn't have time to go back to my hotel, put my bag there, and then go to the reception party. So I decided to just immediately Google Fast took an Uber immediately from, the the event to the reception. And right there, they asked me to open the bag at the door, my backpack.

Esam Boreay: 33:21

So I opened and they started digging so deep into my bag and then they found the flag. Immediately, my bag was seized, immediately, and the security guard starts calling his boss. His boss came along and they literally cornered me in one corner and they refused to give me my my bag ever. Like, they they held it strongly away from me, and then they start calling the DNC employees really huge, tough men. 4 of them showed up, cornered me, and during that time, the security supervisor insisted and gave me clearly, like, I will not let you in with this bag.

Esam Boreay: 34:02

I will not let you in. So I I demanded to give him an explanation. He said, I don't care. I'm not gonna give you any any explanation. So I suggested if I can leave my bag outside, can I get in?

Esam Boreay: 34:17

And they they agreed to this and they let me in. So that give me a feel like, okay. There is intentional strong effort that nothing will go in. And then next day was the the first day of the convention, the beginning of the convention, where we knew president Biden will be the keynote speaker. So we decided to do something at that event.

Esam Boreay: 34:40

But the challenge here was, what can you do? How can you get things inside and all of those things? After that, we still had hope that we will have some meetings or we will have some sort of speaking engagement with the DNC and the campaign and the convention. None of this happened throughout the first day. So we decided to make our voices heard.

Esam Boreay: 35:03

And we decided we need to really force, the Democrats to talk about this.

Emily Williams: 35:51

I'm Emily Williams. Welcome back to Beyond Voting. I've been talking with activist, educator, and 2024 uncommitted DNC delegate Essam Barai. Before the break, Essam was describing his experience as a delegate with the uncommitted movement during the 2024 Democratic National Convention. On the second day of the convention, he and 2 of his colleagues, Florida DNC member Nadia Ahmed and progressive Jewish activist and delegate from Michigan, Leono Sharon, decided to stage a silent protest during president Biden's keynote speech.

Emily Williams: 36:27

In the second part of our conversation, SM tells us about their treatment by other DNC attendees during and after the protest, the impact pro Palestinian voices could have on the rest of the Harris Walls campaign, and why he says he's not ready to give up hope and neither should you.

Esam Boreay: 36:45

So we decided to make our voices heard and we decided to bring a banner and we wrote on this banner, stop arming Israel, and then we snuck the, the banner inside. Once Biden start speaking, we waited just 2 minute, 2, 3 minutes once things were really quiet. We start bringing the banner out and putting it up to his, eyesight to be able for him to be able to see the banner on what was written on it. The response we got from d and c staff, whips on the floor, and our fellow delegates and convention attendees was absolutely astonishing, scary in so many levels. So immediately, the the the DNC staff who run the for the webs immediately came along and they demanded us to put the banner down, and we said no.

Esam Boreay: 37:45

We're gonna keep it up. And then some of the DNC staff members started actually they were so angry at us and it start actually, pulling away our banner, trying to take it out of our hands and take it away. They couldn't. I was I blocked their access to the banner, so they couldn't do that. Then they start immediately bringing more and more signs to signs that we love show signs and distributing these signs to everyone around us and asking them to raise the signs as high as possible, then we would be able to cover the banner and block any sites from Joe Biden to be able to see the sign.

Esam Boreay: 38:28

So the signs went up and all everyone in front of us almost had two signs in in their hands and then start chanting, we love Joe. We love Joe to make sure that we are absolutely covered and absolutely unfeasible. At the same time, on on top of us, in our back, and in the level above us, there was members of the, the Yonah union. The president of the union was speaking at the on the stage few minutes before that happened. He and his colleague start pulling up the banners from us as strongly as possible, and one of the people who were sitting up starts beating my colleagues on her head.

Esam Boreay: 39:11

She actually next day, she had to go see a doctor in Chicago and she was diagnosed with concussion after the beating. And she filed a criminal report against that party member because we succeeded in identifying them from the videos that went viral online. With that physical abuse that was happening against us, there was also the the verbal abuse. Everyone around us was accusing us with every single colorful language you could ever imagine, calling us, this is not your place. Get the f out of here.

Esam Boreay: 39:48

Stop that shit. And at the same time, I had two main thoughts in my mind. The first thought was something like this abuse is going to continue and we will be significantly hurt because we are surrounded by at least 5, 600 people who are absolutely mad and angry at us right now. Some of them start physically accusing us. Some of them start blocking the media.

Esam Boreay: 40:19

Some media showed up to film what was happening. So some of them started blocking the cameras and the phones of the media not to film anything. So that was the first thought that we will get hurt so bad. This is very unsafe. The second thought was, is if this is not our place, so where is our place?

Esam Boreay: 40:41

This is 3 of us, a Jewish person, a hijabi woman, and an immigrant raising a very peaceful banner that has zero offensive language or zero offense against anybody. And our fellow democrats who has been all night long talking to us about inclusivity in the fascism, stop fascism from returning to American politics. But once those brown immigrants showed up with a very peaceful protest, Now this is not our place. Now we're we're okay to abuse them. And when the Secret Service came up and the DNC staff came up, no one asked anyone to stop the abuse, by the way.

Esam Boreay: 41:32

Their main focus was how to block our banner and get us out of the convention center. Then once we left outside, the abuse continued from many different people that were around, and until today, there's no action or reaction whatsoever from the DNC or the campaign. And I will just end it with this. At the Democratic convention, there was a hijabi woman that was beaten on her head for expressing her her beliefs. She was beating until she got a concussion.

Esam Boreay: 42:09

Until today, Democrats have zero reaction.

Emily Williams: 42:13

Yeah. You all did it the right way, quote, unquote. Right? You followed the process that the DNC laid out for you all. You all asked for language, for words to be included.

Emily Williams: 42:25

You go about this in such a peaceful way and they ignores you. And so this is what we're to be able to do in a democracy, right, is to be able to make our voices heard. And yet instead of being met with genuine regard, let's hear what they have to say. What role can this play? How can we better understand where they're coming from and how it might influence what we're asking of our party?

Emily Williams: 42:50

It's abuse. It's violence. How does that feel to be met with that kind of backlash from your own party?

Esam Boreay: 42:59

It's very disappointing. I keep saying I'm I'm a proud Democrat. I don't feel safe in Trump administration. As a brown Muslim immigrant, I don't feel safe. My interests do not lie with the Democratic party.

Esam Boreay: 43:15

My interests lie with the Democratic party sticking to their failures because if I will get threatened and abused, I don't care if who the person who abused me is democrat or republic, and I'm I'm getting abused by the end of the day. So the only safe way for me to live in a country that I love and admire and enjoy a membership in a party that I believe in is for this party to stick to their values and their truth. So telling me, you're better under me than than Republicans, We need to revisit this statement now. We really do. As I said, I'm a proud Democrat, but I will never allow the party to take my vote for granted because if they feel that comfortable with my vote, I will get nothing in return.

Esam Boreay: 44:06

My only leverage is my vote. My only leverage is how to organize people like me to leverage their vote. We believe in freedom. We believe in democracy. We believe in the American values, but we do not just blindly follow whoever tells us some words.

Esam Boreay: 44:26

We will not allow anyone to take our vote for granted or dismiss the power of our vote.

Emily Williams: 44:31

And when you're organized, that vote is so much more powerful than if you were to just choose to withhold your vote as an individual. That's what makes the uncommitted movement so strategic. What do you think the failure to acknowledge the pro Palestinian voice at the DNC will have on the Harris Waltz campaign?

Esam Boreay: 44:51

There are so many people who donated to Harris Waltz campaign or especially Harris campaign at the beginning, But I think that was 20 or 25 percent of the overall donations or the overall money that the campaign got. You still have 80 or 60 or 70% of the money that's coming from a very wealthy donors. And those donors have demands and have their access, they have their their leverage, and they have their strength. So this is the first equation that we really need to think strongly about. The second one is, again, the rooted racism that's embedded in that policy making class.

Esam Boreay: 45:35

I never had any faith that the policy will change from Biden to Harris. I, personally, I didn't have faith in that. I I believed, Biden and Harris, both of them hold the same views when it comes to the Israeli Palestinian conflict, but we were hoping for a change in rhetoric. And Harris Harris rhetoric will be different. We were very disappointed.

Esam Boreay: 45:57

We couldn't reach that very low bar. But I know it's very easy or has much less consequences to side against Arabs, Muslims, Middle Eastern, than actually doing the right thing of advocating for a more just solution. You will face a stronger scrutiny from the bureaucratic class in foreign policy making and also in the media and also from donors' money. This is the consequence that I mean when I say taking the position that Harris did was less consequential for her than doing the right thing.

Emily Williams: 46:39

And I think you're right in the eyes of the establishment because, essentially, it's a doubling down of the status quo versus taking a different path, maybe even just slightly different because I don't think, you know, you just said you're asking for a shift in rhetoric, which shouldn't be that big of a step for them to take. Right?

Esam Boreay: 46:56

However, though, what she's missing, what the campaign is missing is more and more Americans every day are in favor of more just and equitable approach to the Middle East politics and the Israeli Palestinian conflict. And electorally, it makes more sense for the Harris Walls campaign to adapt and implement and support more equitable approach to convince more and more people to vote for them in important states by moving to the left on that issue, then now it's it just it doesn't make any electoral sense for them to keep sticking to that position,

Emily Williams: 47:38

yet they are. Is there a substantive difference between the Democratic and Republican party's policies in Israel and Gaza?

Esam Boreay: 47:48

Not not really. I think the motivations could be different. Maybe more in the Republican side have more, religious approach to to the Middle East. But by the end of the day, I don't think the outcomes is any different. Biden didn't change anything of Trump policies in the Middle East.

Esam Boreay: 48:10

Every act that was done by Trump is still held by Biden at the same length and the same strength as well. So there in my opinion, there's no change when it comes to Middle Middle East politics between Republicans and and Democrats. However, though, there is increasing numbers in both Democrats and Republicans to change our approach and stop sending weapons to to them to stop spending our money in sending weapons to Israel and reinvest this money in our own lives. There is still a huge gap between what the American people asking for and what the American government is implementing and doing by hopefully, by the end of the day, someone will listen.

Emily Williams: 48:53

So what happens now post DNC? Have uncommitted's demands changed?

Esam Boreay: 48:59

So the main concern of the uncommitted movement is the the Israeli Palestinian conflict. And during the convention time, we were hoping that we will have representation on this convention stage and change in the platform when it comes to the Israeli Palestinian conflict. That didn't happen. So now we are hoping to push the American campaigns and the the American foreign policy understanding when it comes to the Middle East in general and the the Israeli Palestinian conflict in particular and the campaign and the American administration of talking about we support ceasefire. How come you keep saying we support ceasefire at the same exact minute?

Esam Boreay: 49:40

You're releasing 1,000,000,000 and 1,000,000,000 of dollars to keep arming the military that refusing to adhere to a ceasefire. Like, it just doesn't make any sense. If you are really serious and sincere about ceasefire, you need to stop weaponizing. They have this conventional wisdom that's dinosaur old that, supporting militant dictatorship in the Middle East will secure the region, will stabilize the region, and secure the American interests in the Middle East, which is absolutely not true, especially since 2011 and the radical changes that happened in the region. And I I say this as a part of broader youth movement that started in Egypt in 2007 and 2008.

Esam Boreay: 50:30

We revolted strongly against the oldest status quo in the Middle East. I was a political activist in Egypt. Right? So during the Arab Spring, the Egyptian revolution in 2011. During that time, just for me starting building my campaign to run for the Egyptian parliament, one of the main items in my agenda was number 1, getting the Egyptian military out of politics and make our government run by civilians in a free democratic election.

Esam Boreay: 51:03

Number 2 was to hold the military in Egypt accountable for the bloodshed that happened during the Egyptian revolution that I was part of and I was a victim of as well. Because of that, the military government arrested me, and I was sent to the criminal court. And my crime was working for a human rights organization. I was trialed for 18 months in Egyptian criminal court for working for a human rights organization under the military government in Egypt. And myself and my friends and many other human rights organizations lobbied and advocated for years for years and years for the American administrations and American governments to stop funding the the Egyptian military and the militant regimes in the region.

Esam Boreay: 51:54

And my logic was very simple. The military government in Egypt is strengthened and empowered by the money and the aid that the American government sent to them. And they use that money and these weapons to murder us and put me behind bar just for working for human rights organization and running for an office. I'm a firsthand victim of this policy standing by militant authoritarian regimes in this region. And when that conflict happened, I noticed that the same batter of the American government foreign policy, just sending weapons and sending military aid to a racist right wing war cabinet that's sitting in Israel right now.

Esam Boreay: 52:42

As a firsthand victim of this policy, I urged and I begged and I still do the American government to stop this policy and change it because the status quo has changed in the Middle East. People in the Middle East now understand what's happening, and everyone now understands it strongly and blames firsthand the American foreign policy. So when I decided to raise a banner in the DNC Convention, I was pushing and lobbying and advocating because for 15 years of experience in this region as an activist, as a political prisoner, as an exile right now, I have something or two to say about this policy.

Emily Williams: 53:32

Absolutely. And we need to hear from more people around the world who have been impacted firsthand by US foreign policy because that's a perspective that we don't hear in US media. And thank you for sharing that, and I'm sorry that that happened. So, SM, you and your fellow members in the uncommitted movement are the reason why so many people have to pay attention to what's happening in Gaza, and the uncommitted movement has been incredibly strategic. How much do you feel that the work that you all have done has moved your agenda forward?

Esam Boreay: 54:08

It's very sad and disappointing to see that the only changes that we've seen so far is very minimal, which a mention of ceasefire. However, though, we do not take that statement seriously because there is no suggested mechanisms whatsoever for this ceasefire. But we were going to keep pushing and keep organizing and keep working under the hope that before November, we will find a significant change in the policy. But if the same trend will keep going on, I will never accept any of the Democrats, Democrat establishment, or the Democratic candidates or Democratic members to blame us for losing a November 5th. Because if you are not willing to truly include everyone under the big tent, if you're not willing enough to stand for your values and your beliefs, do not blame those who did.

Esam Boreay: 55:10

Our stand is not secret. Our demands are not crazy, and our efforts is not short. We have knocked on every door. We have dialed every number. We have talked to everyone.

Esam Boreay: 55:24

So you know who we are. You know what we stand for. So if, God forbid and I I wholeheartedly say this. If, God forbid, Democrats continued that way and lost in November, only themselves to blame.

Emily Williams: 55:40

And, Essam, what would the work look like under a Trump presidency?

Esam Boreay: 55:44

We will keep pushing and we will keep organizing. To be honest with you, we haven't had the discussion that far because we still hopeful the democrats will come along and will will do the right thing. So we haven't yet imagined second Trump administration, second Trump term. We still believe in the democratic party, and we we still hold the hope that Democrats and the Harris Wills administration will come along to seriously include what we're hoping for.

Emily Williams: 56:17

Yeah. And so often, that's what organizing is about. There's this quote made popular by Mariame Kaba that's hope is the discipline. And so often as organizers, we have to keep doing the hard work of raising the awareness of being unpopular in these spaces where we actually just wanna have a sense of belonging and of the really difficult work of pushing people towards the policies that are actually more humane or that are more just. And we have to hold out hope because that process is almost always much longer than we would ever want.

Esam Boreay: 56:52

Yeah. This is very true. And we are very aware of the differences between the two candidates, and this is why we are pushing Kamala to do the right thing because we have hope in that side. This is why we are members. We are the gist of Democrats.

Esam Boreay: 57:08

This is why we organize for Democrats. I'm a community organizer. I ran campaigns. I was a campaign manager for 6 different campaigns. I did work as a staffer on many other campaigns on every level from state council all the way to the to president.

Esam Boreay: 57:24

I campaigned for Democrats. I fundraised for for Democrats. I volunteered for Democrats. I worked for Democrats. I did all of this because I truly believe in the value that we say we uphold or we believe in.

Esam Boreay: 57:37

And this is why we still have hope. If, God forbid, will be a second term with Trump, of course, we'll the work will continue stronger than ever, and we will do everything we can. But we're still hopeful that it will be Harris Wall's White House, and they will do the right thing of stopping that madness and genocide that's happening in Gaza right now.

Emily Williams: 58:02

What advice does the uncommitted movement have for voters who would typically vote in the presidential election but are struggling to vote for an administration that won't commit to a ceasefire and arms embargo?

Esam Boreay: 58:14

The advice will be this. We all wanna win in November. We are praying and organizing and pushing to win in November. The right way to do this is not to ask us to be silent and push us under the rock. This is not the right way.

Esam Boreay: 58:33

The right way is for all voters out there to join us in supporting our efforts for vice president Harris and and governor Walz to do the right thing and stand for the right thing, then we all can really happily enjoy our party's big tent. I know, like, the uncommitted movement, we have family members who were killed in Gaza as young as months old, not even 1 year old. So how can you ask that person to stay silent while literally children of their families being murdered right now? Who should change? So my advice will be this.

Esam Boreay: 59:21

Since we all are very serious and sincere and aware of the danger of Trump, if we cannot provide a different and more just and equitable campaign and candidate and policies that includes everybody, We're not gonna be any diff from them. The right way is to join our effort in pushing the campaign to adapt more equitable solutions for the Palestinian Israeli conflict.

Emily Williams: 59:53

Very well said. Thank you. And so how can listeners support the ongoing work of the uncommitted movement?

Esam Boreay: 01:00:01

Share our news and our demands in social media. Talk to your neighbors. Talk to your family members. And more importantly, the most urgent and immediate thing is raise those questions during campaign events in your community. Always always make sure the question of a changing policy on Palestinian Israeli conflict is present, is asked, is answered in a genuine way because the internal campaign pollsters who attended those meetings and collect data from those meetings, once they notice the increasing numbers of supporters and and voters who talk about these issues, the campaign will listen.

Esam Boreay: 01:00:47

The campaign will change. And believe me, those events and small words matter the most to every campaign. Doesn't matter how much money they have, doesn't matter how many wealthy donors push against that. Those micro events in each individual community makes huge difference and a huge impact. And you will be part of a huge global movement pushing for justice and equality for everyone.

Emily Williams: 01:01:18

Yeah. 100%. Your voice matters. Esam, thank you so much. This has been wonderful.

Emily Williams: 01:01:23

I know a lot of people have been wanting more information about the uncommitted movement, and we really got an inside view with you today. So thank you.

Esam Boreay: 01:01:31

Thank you so much, Emily, for having me, and, thank you to all your listeners and anyone who would raise the question of the Palestinian conflict in their community events, and demand a genuine answer to it. Thank you so much. And I apologize if I talk too much. I'm from Egypt now, and and I'm a professor, so I talk for a living.

Emily Williams: 01:01:56

I really enjoy talking with Essem. Despite us covering some pretty somber subjects during our interview, I was genuinely struck by his optimism. And his ability to get into the specific and granular details of a topic and then discuss it with Nuance was really welcomed and impressive. He strikes me as the kind of person who can hold 2 things in his head at once and still be able to discuss a hard topic in an honest yet constructive way. SM knows the harsh reality of toxic, catastrophic, terrible foreign policy, And the fallout from that policy isn't some traumatizing ordeal he has to imagine.

Emily Williams: 01:02:37

It's something he's actually lived. At the same time, he's committed to fully exercising every aspect of the democratic process available to him in this country. He's in the streets, and he's in the voting booth. He's on the campaign trail, and he's organizing in the community. And I really believe that, especially in this election, we have to do more of that.

Emily Williams: 01:03:01

We can hold that neither the Republican nor Democratic candidate has an acceptable policy on Gaza, and we can still commit to showing up for this election in a really constructive way. And one of those ways might be voting for a party that exists outside the typical duopoly of American politics. We'll talk more about that next week. Still, I think the uncommitted movement has given us a great example to learn from. They are amplifying the urgency of the crisis in Gaza and the deep grief felt among their members, some of whom have endured agonizing personal losses.

Emily Williams: 01:03:38

They are motivating others to join them, and they're committing to the fight for the long haul. And, ultimately, that's the lesson I hope we can take from this. The fight for a better world is one we must commit to for the long haul, even when it takes longer than we think it should. Earlier in the interview, I quoted the prison abolitionist and activist, Mariame Kaba. Hope is a discipline, and so much of organizing is developing the discipline to stick to the strategy, revise the strategy, and then keep going.

Emily Williams: 01:04:18

Tell us, how are the candidates' positions on Gaza influencing your vote? What are your thoughts on working within our current political binary to affect meaningful change? Leave us a comment on IG at arcuscenter ordropitinyour5starreviewoftheshow. And please visit us at arcuscenter.kz00.edu. You can find Esam on IG, Twitter, and all other socials at Essam Barai.

Emily Williams: 01:04:47

That's e s a m b o r a e y. You can also email him and learn more about how you can get involved with the uncommitted movement at esambarai@gmail.com, or visit uncommittedmovement.com for more info. If you like today's show, let us know. Share the episode with your friends and your family. Thanks again for joining us on Beyond Voting.

Emily Williams: 01:05:14

See you next time. Beyond voting is hosted by me, Emily Williams. Keisha TK Dutas is our executive producer. Kristen Bennett is our producer. And this episode was written by Kristen Bennett and me.

Emily Williams: 01:05:34

Our sound designer and engineer is Manny Faces. Marketing is courtesy of Fabian Mickens, and our music is provided by Motion Array. Special thanks to my team at the Arcus Center For Social Justice Leadership, Quintin, Crimson, Tamara, Winter, and Kierra. Beyond voting is a production of Philo's Future Media.